Tucker: It's vital that Americans have faith in the electoral system
Tucker Carlson weighs in on the state of the 2020 election as ballot counts continue across the country.
Nov. 5, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “Tucker Carlson Tonight” November 5, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Good evening, and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. Election was on Tuesday. We still don't know the outcome. What happens next? And how long does it go on?
Well, if you follow the Florida recount 20 years ago, you probably assume you've got some idea how this election is going to play out. Officials in contested states will carefully count all the available votes, supervised by bipartisan observers from both campaigns to reassure all of us, it's on the level. If they find irregularities or they see questions of fraud, we'll all get to learn exactly what those allegations are and how they were resolved. That's what we did in 2000.
Hanging chads? Remember those? We put them on TV so people could see the ballots for themselves.
In the end, the dispute between Al Gore and George W. Bush continued all the way to the Supreme Court. It took 36 days to resolve, and every one of those days, if you remember them, seemed like a month.
That process was excruciating. It required patience and calm. But in the end, it was well worth it.
And by the way, the news organizations in this country covered every moment of it. No one in any newsroom in America even considered censoring information about what was happening in the states. That would have been regarded as grotesque and immoral.
By the way, then, as now, almost everyone in the media was a partisan Democrat. That's always been the case. But in 2000, they understood that preserving the public's faith in the system, our American system of government was more important than getting Al Gore or anyone else into the White House. So they pushed for openness and transparency in the process, and thank God they did.
A lot has changed over two decades. It is entirely possible now that someday soon, the news media will decide to shut this election down.
Believe it or not, effectively, they have the power to do that.
Let's say tomorrow, officials in Philadelphia produced a large number of newly counted votes. Pennsylvania's Secretary of State hastily ratifies them, puts a seal of approval on them, and then declares Joe Biden, the winner. Winning Pennsylvania would put Joe Biden over the threshold of 270 electoral votes. So Joe Biden is now the President elect.
But hold on a minute, how many of the 69 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump this week would believe that and accept it? At this point, not very many, not that anyone cares, and of course, the fact that no one cares is the reason they voted for Donald Trump in the first place.
But if you cared about the country and its future, you wouldn't force Donald Trump's voters to believe this. You wouldn't force them to take you on your word. Instead, you would show them. You would convince them. You would pull back, you'd resist hasty calls, and you'd make certain that we got to the bottom of any credible claim of fraud.
Not all the claims are credible, some are and you'd care. You would air the hanging chads. You'd let the process work as we did in 2000.
Maybe in the end, Joe Biden would win anyway, maybe he wouldn't. But the public's faith in the system and that's essential in a self-governing Republic would remain intact. That's what you would do if you cared about this country.
But let's say you didn't care at all. Let's say all you cared about was power. In that case, you'd go on television and declare Joe Biden, the President elect, even as other states were still counting votes and serious questions about the legitimacy of ballots remained unanswered. You wouldn't care. You'd just shut it down.
The news media believe they can do that, quote, "The role of declaring the winner of a presidential election in the United States falls to the news media." That's what "The New York Times" declared this week. So let's say the news networks decide to do that, shut it down. What then?
Well, Donald Trump and his voters would complain, obviously, but what can they really do? They are not news anchors, they don't own their owns. And if you wanted to stop them from complaining, it wouldn't be very hard. You just accuse them of attacking democracy, then you would censor their social media posts.
You might even pull the President off Twitter completely. It's his main form of communication and he doesn't own it. Jack Dorsey runs it.
You'd accuse the President of spreading misinformation, and so for the sake of the nation, we can't allow that.
If Trump and his voters persisted in complaining, you'd consider stronger measures.
Democrats have been thinking about this for a long time, it turns out. Not the rest of us have, but they have.
This summer, John Podesta played Joe Biden in an election simulation that Democrats held. In that simulation according to reports, Podesta quote, "Wanted to see what the military would do if Donald Trump refused to accept the election results." The military? So what exactly would the military do?
It's shocking even to think about something like that, but others have thought about it.
This summer, a retired Army Colonel called Lawrence Wilkerson went on the Bill Maher show on HBO, to discuss that question. As you watch the clip we're about to show you, keep in mind that Wilkerson is not a fringe figure. He is not some guy muttering to himself on a city bus.
Wilkerson was once Chief of Staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell. Look him up. He is a famous man. He taught courses at a couple of famous universities. Here's what Wilkerson said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN
POWELL: If Trump calls his base to the streets with their guns, his base owns something like 60 to 70 percent of the 300 to 400 million guns in America.
If they answer that call and come to the streets with guns, then we probably are going to have a need for the military. And then all bets are off as to how much blood might flow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: How much blood might flow? See here you have one of the people who brought you the war in Iraq, fantasizing out loud about killing even more civilians, in this case, American citizens -- Trump voters in the streets of our cities.
People didn't used to talk like this on television and on FOX News, they still don't because we wouldn't allow it. That's violent extremism.
But on that, no problem. No one even noticed that. It tells you a lot about how they think.
You really can't overstate -- and we mean that you -- can't overstate how corrosive language like that is. It's a quick way to break everything and it is happening now.
Normal people are becoming paranoid. Americans who love this country are beginning to fear it, why? We know exactly why. Because shutting down legitimate discourse and inquiry always has that effect.
It destroys social trust and it sets the table for awful things to come.
So let's stop this right now. Slow down. No hasty calls. Our system works.
It has worked before.
If people air concerns, resolve the concerns. Don't call them names. Don't sweep those concerns under the rug. Don't shut it down artificially with unelected news anchors, let our system work. Only by doing that will we have a country we are going to want to live in 20 years from now.
Josh Hawley is a Republican senator from the State of Missouri and we're happy to have him on tonight.
Senator, thanks so much for coming on. So, I'm concerned by the number of reports that we are getting on this that I'm getting and that all of us are getting about irregularities and potential fraud in the voting. I can't confirm that any of those are true, perhaps some are.
What I'm concerned about is the concerted attempt to ignore them, and the effect that that has on Americans trust in the system.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Yes, I am too, Tucker, there needs to be transparency in this process. There needs to be integrity.
CARLSON: Yes.
HAWLEY: Americans need to have confidence that their elections have integrity, then that means things like poll watchers. Poll watchers from both parties need to be present as ballots are being counted. That means that states need to give an accounting of how many absentee ballots they have left, how many mail-in ballots are there.
It also mean things like ballot harvesting, Tucker, where you pay a third party to go collect ballots to bring him in. That ought to be illegal in the United States of America. Let's ban ballot harvesting right now. It is rife with abuse. It is inviting abuse.
These are the kind of reforms that we need to pursue. But right now, I mean, right this very instant, there needs to be total transparency in this process. And I've got to tell you, when you see some states going to court to try and stop poll watchers, people just -- just observing the ballot counts. I mean, that is deeply, deeply disturbing.
CARLSON: Well, it is disturbing, and I can't really think of a reason for it that is legitimate. But I know for a fact and I'll -- but you know, hopefully the system, the courts will figure this out. But I know for a fact that the effect of it is to make everyone paranoid and distrustful.
Why are they allowed to get away with excluding oversight? That seems like a disastrous thing even to try?
HAWLEY: Yes, it does. And unfortunately, we've seen it tried in multiple places and we've seen reports of Detroit about ballots brought in there, new ballots in the middle of the night. And we've seen it in Philadelphia.
Now, again, to your point a second ago, I don't know if these allegations are well founded or not. That's why you have observers. That's why you have a process. That's why you have a transparent process.
I can tell you what else, Tucker, to have some states where they are not even telling us how many ballots they have counted, how many exactly are left. They're not giving reports to us. They say, you know, "We'll get back to you in 24 hours," and then it is completely dark. That also breeds distrust. People have no idea what in the world is going on.
So I say again, there needs to be total transparency in this process. Allow poll watchers to come in from both parties. States should be giving regular updates so that the American people can have confidence, and going forward, we're going to have to pursue election integrity reforms.
CARLSON: Yes, immediately. I mean, when people refuse to answer straightforward questions, when they refuse to allow you to watch what they're doing, you should be highly concerned. And that's why people are concerned. It's not a figment of their imagination.
I have to ask you, several months ago, Democrats completely redid the way we vote for President. We, for hundreds of years, we've allowed people who need absentee ballots to request them and then vote with them. But states sent the entire voter file ballots.
Wasn't that, under the best of circumstances, a recipe for undermining the public's faith in an election outcome?
HAWLEY: Yes, particularly when you allow ballot harvesting, which is you send all of those mail ballots out, and then it's legal in many states to allow third parties to pay third parties to go round the ballots up and bring them to the ballot box.
I mean, that is begging for voter abuse. It's just begging for it. That should be banned.
CARLSON: That's right.
HAWLEY: We should ban that. And this -- and again, this practice of just mailing the list when there is no ballots requested, somebody doesn't request a ballot, you just send it to them. That also, I think has a lot of serious issues.
So at the very least, let's start by banning ballot harvesting. Congress should do that immediately.
The Senate is back in session next week. We ought to take this up next week immediately.
CARLSON: Yes. So the left sets up a system that is guaranteed to shake the public's faith in an election outcome and then punishes anyone who questions the election outcome.
Well, they've got you coming and going here, I have to say. Senator, good luck on that bill. We're rooting for you.
HAWLEY: Thank you.
CARLSON: So we are going to do our absolute dead level best because we care about the country not to incite paranoia or fear. But we're going to be as honest as we possibly can about what we're seeing, because that's our obligation.
On Election Night, early returns showed that the President has significant lead in the States of Georgia and Pennsylvania. Two days later, we are still counting votes and awaiting the results in those states. Why? Why did a bunch of different states shut down voting on Election Night?
These aren't crackpot questions. These are totally legitimate questions, and most people have not heard the answers.
Michael Anton has written a fantastic column on this topic. He is the author of "The Stakes: America at the Point of No Return." We're happy to have him on tonight.
Michael Anton, thanks so much for coming on. You're among other things, a historian. I know that you care about our system more than any single politician. All of us I think, should feel that way. It does seem like people have legitimate concerns about whether the system is working fairly.
Tell us what your concerns are.
MICHAEL ANTON, AUTHOR, "THE STAKES": Some of the ones that you mentioned, why was voting stopped in five or six states -- I think it was actually five states and six cities for four hours. You know, why our ballots showing up?
Mail-in voting, it has a lot of problems, you know, some obvious ones. You send ballots out to everyone, you never know who actually receives the ballot and when they come back. You could be sending them to people who have died without knowing. You could be sending it to people who have moved from the state. So that already has a problem.
But there should be one advantage, right? If these things are mailed in, presumably, some of them will come in late, but wouldn't most of them be coming in months or weeks ahead of time? So why are we finding big trenches of ballots hours and in some cases, even days after the polls have closed?
Shouldn't mail-in ballots already be there somewhere ready to be counted?
And your point is exactly the right one. These are questions. They deserve investigations and answers, transparent answers, and when all we get back is, "Shut up. You're a conspiracy theorist. You're attacking the integrity of our democracy." That doesn't give anybody confidence in the integrity of the system. It makes you suspect that something fishy is going on.
CARLSON: Well, I mean, I would say that censorship and silencing legitimate questions is itself an effort to undermine the legitimacy of our democracy.
Who is undermining the democracy? Who is destroying the public's faith in the system? It's not us.
ANTON: Right. No, definitely not. And look, I would say this, I think the person, you know, ironically, one of the people who will be harmed by this, if this continues and this plays out the way it is looking right now will be Joe Biden, to be perfectly honest.
If I were Joe Biden, and I were convinced I won and I won, you know, comfortably or at least handily in a number of states and an accurate count would show that, I would be saying to everyone in my party, everyone in my campaign, I would be saying this to all the state elected officials and non-elected officials who are charged with vote counting, be transparent, be open. Let both sides examine this process and see what's going on, because I want the American people, the whole American electorate, including Donald Trump's 67 million voters, I want them all to be convinced that this was fair and that I won legitimately, so that I can govern with the full confidence of the American people in the system.
That's what I would want if I were Joe Biden.
CARLSON: Well, because you care about having the confidence of the American people because you believe in democracy, but people who believe in ruling by force don't really care what voters think because they are going to make them obey regardless. And that's maybe the difference between you and them.
ANTON: It suggests --
CARLSON: Go ahead. Please finish.
ANTON: Yes. No, it's it -- but it also -- it suggests that I don't -- they must not have total confidence that if they were a completely fair count, and if all of these questions were addressed and the anomalies addressed, they must be worried that they wouldn't win, otherwise, they would be throwing open the books and saying, you know, the President mentioned this, and others have mentioned it, there are places where votes are being counted where they literally taped paper in the windows so that people can't look inside.
People who think they won, that won a fair accounting, they wouldn't do that.
CARLSON: That's exactly right. Such a smart point. Michael Anton, thanks a lot for coming on.
ANTON: Thanks.
CARLSON: Not to mention, didn't they spend three years telling us the last election was rigged by Vladimir Putin? And now they're attacking anyone who questions the legitimacy of the election. It's beyond belief.
Well, the situation in Pennsylvania is still unfolding tonight. Votes are still being counted two days after the election. We will speak to a poll watcher who is very concerned about what is happening there. You'll hear it straight from that person.
Also, Jason Whitlock here with his assessment of the differences between people who voted for one candidate and the other. Worth hearing. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: This is a FOX News alert. You keep hearing all day that the State of Pennsylvania is close to being called. Certainly, the vote counting is underway there. We wanted to speak to someone authoritative about where we are and where it's going.
So of course, Bill Hemmer was the first on the speed dial. Hey, Bill, what's going on?
BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: How are you doing, Tucker? It is nice to see you, Tucker. Just to give you a quick spin on this in Pennsylvania right now. So you're about 0.9 percent total, the difference here between the
261,000 votes.
All right, so where are these votes? Pittsburgh is in the West.
Philadelphia here. We've been talking about this all day. You've got a strong margin for Joe Biden.
We believe at the moment, Tucker, there's proximately 85,000 ballots still to be counted here in Philly. You get a little bit out here in the suburbs of Bucks County, the collar counties here. Bucks County, we think there's about 34,000 votes still to be counted. A difference right now of 8,800.
So how they come in through the course of the night and by the way, Pennsylvania is counting in two, by the way. I'll try and pop up Allegheny County.
So in Pittsburgh, you're talking a difference between the two raw votes of 128,000. Last check, there were about 35,000 ballots still outstanding in Pittsburgh. So that covers Pennsylvania.
Tucker, down here in Georgia. This thing has just been moving closer and closer all day tonight, 8:22, our time on the East Coast, the difference in the entire state right now in Georgia, 3,400 ballots.
Arizona is going to give us a bit of a dump around nine o'clock Eastern Time. So come on back in 40 minutes, we'll let you know whether or not Arizona changes here, especially in Maricopa County where you find Phoenix, Tucker.
CARLSON: Wow. Arizona is close. Amazing. Bill Hemmer, thanks so much.
So elections are deeply revealing. You learn who believes what, all of a sudden, on a huge scale, 350 million people expressing preference. It turns out there are differences between voters, for sure, and especially this year.
Jason Whitlock has thought a lot about this and wrote a fantastic piece about it today. He is with Outkick.com, of course. We're happy to have him on tonight.
Jason, thanks for coming on. So what -- you've thought about it, what do you think we've learned about the differences between the campaigns and their voters?
JASON WHITLOCK, OUTKICK.COM: Yes, I think this 2020 election is a parable about the power of love versus the power of hate. And I think and again, I'm not talking about Donald Trump and Joe Biden there specifically. They are not the parable of hate. I'm talking about their supporters.
And Donald Trump's support is coming from people who love Donald Trump, who unconditionally love Donald Trump to the point that they will risk their health and go to maskless rallies of thousands of people. They'll risk their reputations and be accused of being racist and sexist. They'll risk their safety in terms of being attacked by Antifa or Black Lives Matter.
They love Donald Trump.
Biden supporters hate Donald Trump. That is their energy source. It has nothing to do with Joe Biden.
And so, this is about can you take hate and turn that into something that's a winning formula for you? Is hate a more powerful motivation for a base of supporters? And is that how we are going to be deciding elections and deciding who we support? Can we rally enough hate of the opponent to win an election?
I think it's a sad statement about where we are in this society as it relates to politics. I think it's a sad statement on where we are in terms of our relationship.
This was a country founded on Judeo-Christian values and we are moving completely away from that. God is the embodiment of love, and we are a society that seems to be embracing and favoring hate and empowering hate.
And if this election swings for Biden, it's a statement about hate and its power to conquer love if supported by what I believe is corruption.
CARLSON: I thought about this election a lot. I've never thought about it in that way. That's a clarifying and very smart way to frame it. Why do you think -- I can't resist asking you -- why do you think Donald Trump's supporters love him in the way they do?
WHITLOCK: Because he has actually expressed a set of ideas and beliefs that he stands firm on. I think this has been the case with most popular and beloved presidential candidates. You actually know what they believe and what they are going to stand for. As it relates to Joe Biden, we just don't know it.
Again, President Trump stands for a wall, America, America first, bringing manufacturing jobs back. He stands for things and he actually has expressed the ideas. It is no different than Barack Obama. He was all about revamping the healthcare system. People love that.
As it relates to Joe Biden, we don't know. I had to look up this morning, and I'm not trying to be facetious, I didn't know his slogan.
CARLSON: Yes, I don't -- I think that's such a smart point. I'm glad you made it.
Jason Whitlock, thank you very much.
WHITLOCK: Thank you.
CARLSON: So the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is counting votes right now as we speak. The President said today that he is being cheated. We'll take a look at why he said that.
Plus, we will talk to a poll watcher who said he was ejected from the Philadelphia Convention Center. That's not supposed to be the way it works.
It doesn't sound like transparency. We'll get to the bottom of his claims after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you count the legal votes, an easy win. If you count the illegal votes, they can try to steal the election from us if you count the votes that came in late. We're looking at them very strongly, a lot of votes came in late.
Our goal is to defend the integrity of the election. We will not allow the corruption to steal such an important election or any election for that matter, and we can't allow silence -- anybody to silence our voters and manufacture results.
It will probably go through a process, a legal process. And as you know, I've claimed certain states and he is claiming states so we can both claim the states, but ultimately I have a feeling judges are going to have to rule. But there's been a lot of shenanigans and we can't stand for that in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That was the President speaking from the White House tonight.
Today, a judge in the City of Philadelphia ordered election officials to allow Republican election observers to watch the votes being counted from within six feet. Hard to know why they were excluded in the first place.
And amazingly, Democrats have appealed that order. On what grounds? It's not clear. Why would you exclude people from watching something that affects the whole country?
The Trump campaign says officials did not comply with the judge's ruling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, SENIOR ADVISER 2020 TRUMP CAMPAIGN: A judge in this state issued a ruling that the Board of Election has summarily dismissed.
They believe they are above the law.
It is shameful that the Boards of Election here in Pennsylvania thinks they do not have to listen to a judge's order.
This judge has ordered us inside to review this process and the Board of Elections and your Sheriff said no.
So what do we do? We go get relief by the Federal government to make sure every legal vote is counted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Okay, so in case you couldn't hear that, let's simplify the question. Why would anybody try to prevent oversight of vote counting? It's a really simple question. What's the answer?
One poll watcher, a man called Brian McCafferty explained that election officials just weren't allowing him to watch what they were doing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN MCCAFFERTY, POLL WATCHER: Okay, my name is Brian McCafferty. I was inside the Philadelphia Convention Center today observing people counting votes. I got thrown out because I took video of corrupt people trying to undermine the President of the United States.
And this gentleman right here, he threw me out. He told me I'm not allowed back in, and the reason is because I took video of people trying to undermine and have a coup against the President of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Brian McCafferty joins us now. Mr. McCafferty, thanks so much for coming on. So, tell us -- tell us what you believe you saw in there.
MCCAFFERTY: Hi, Tucker, can you hear me?
CARLSON: I can hear you perfectly. Thanks.
MCCAFFERTY: Okay, great. So yesterday, I was -- I was asked to be a watcher. It's called a canvas watcher -- a pre-canvass/canvass watcher and I walked into the Convention Center yesterday at 8:00 a.m. not knowing what I would expect and there was really no direction and it was complete chaos.
And it was at that point that I had the opportunity to talk to one of the Trump attorneys and I said, listen, we have a 50,000 square foot facility here and we have steel barriers being set up. Let's say, for optical purposes, one-eighth of the place is free for the people that are supposed to supervise to watch the people that are counting votes, which is a complete farce, okay.
You can't make this up. You can see from the videos that I've sent to FOX News, and nobody gave any direction. There were eight-hour shifts and you can do whatever you want. And I started watching.
And I said, wait a second, you can't see anything. The closest desk, okay, let's put things in perspective. The closest desk was 30 feet. The farthest desk was probably 150 feet.
And you knew this was orchestrated. Everybody had yellow jackets, okay, that's how they orchestrate it. However, nobody knew where these people went and I started looking to the right hand corner and at that point, yesterday, I started taking videos, I said, what are those black trash bags in the right hand corner that filled up the Convention Center.
And there was no communication, and when people asked questions, they were really -- you know, they wouldn't answer them. And at that point, you know, you said to yourself, listen, something is wrong here. Something is wrong.
So I left yesterday at four o'clock. I came back today and I started taking videos and pictures inside the Convention Center.
And the reason you and I are talking is one went viral. Okay. And I really feel sorry for this individual. His name is the Philly godfather. He's one of the biggest handicappers and Stu Varney has him on FOX all the time.
And his Twitter account is shut down right now.
CARLSON: On what grounds?
MCCAFFERTY: There is no ground. Because people are listening to it. Freedom of speech. And I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. And if I tell you yesterday, that when you walk into the Convention Center, and this is -- we're not talking about -- we're talking to the presidential -- we're talking about the President United States of America, okay?
And I walk up and there are steel barriers, like we're criminals, okay. And the closest you can see is 30 feet away.
And today, Corey Lewandowski and Trump's attorneys are inside the Convention Center today and they move everybody up. Okay. And you still can't see what's going on.
There's something wrong, man. There's something wrong.
Listen, you don't have to be a Democrat or a Republican. You know something is wrong and this is really sad in America -- America right now.
CARLSON: Well, I mean, if they are having you quote, "observe" from 150 feet away, I'm 51, I can barely see 10 feet away. I mean, that's what -- yes -- Brian McCafferty, I appreciate your coming on tonight and telling us what you saw, rather what you didn't see. Thanks very much. Good for you for being here.
MCCAFFERTY: But Tucker, I also took video of what I saw. I took video what I saw. And that's why I got thrown out.
CARLSON: Yes, of course, too much transparency. And by the way, if I can just state the obvious point that no one wants to say, the City of Philadelphia has a long and very well-documented history of corruption. It doesn't mean the corruption is going on now, but it means, it has a lot in the past.
So the onus is on them to reassure our concerns about their vote counting.
It's not on us, it is on them well, and they're preventing you from watching. Okay.
MCCAFFERTY: Well, let me -- let's just finalize this. The mayor let the city burn to the ground.
CARLSON: Yes, I noticed.
MCCAFFERTY: Okay. Jim Kenney and Josh Shapiro. Okay, let's just say something -- Josh Shapiro said before the election, that, you know, Trump can't win. Are you kidding me?
CARLSON: Yes, that's not reassuring.
MCCAFFERTY: Are we really -- no, Tucker, are we going to let this happen?
Yes or no.
CARLSON: We're going to watch as carefully, press as hard, be as honest as we can be, because in the end, no one will believe the results of any election if they don't believe the results of this election. That's our view. We mean it. And so we're going to press forward that's why we're having you on tonight and we're happy to. Thanks, Brian.
MCCAFFERTY: Thank you.
CARLSON: At a press conference at the White House tonight, the President insisted that he has a legal case that he is being cheated. So what exactly you is the President's argument? How strong is it? Where's it going from here?
Jonathan Turley is a Law Professor. He is here to assess it.
Jonathan Turley, thanks so much for coming on. What case is the President making? How strong is it?
JONATHAN TURLEY, GWU LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: Well, there are a slew of filings in all of these close states, and some of them are more procedural, such as how the counting of ballots are occurring, the access of monitors.
There are some legitimate questions there.
It does appear in Pennsylvania that these monitors or observers did face barriers, did face obstructions. There are court orders that went for the Trump campaign to get them greater access. It's a mystery to me why the Pennsylvania officials are litigating this question, because it certainly does fulfill the suspicions of people that there is something going on. So, I don't know why they would do this.
But I'm actually looking more closely at the Nevada litigation right now.
You know, the Trump campaign is saying that they have evidence of people out of state and even deceased individuals who were allowed to vote. That's the type of thing that really pops out, because most of the challenges in these types of elections, and you and I have been covering them in the past
2000 are usually incremental.
You know, you usually grab a group of pallets here, a group there. In the aggregate, they can make a difference if it's a very narrow margin. But what we really look for are those cases where there are large groups of ballots that have been challenged.
The Nevada case could be that type of challenge, you know, if -- because it's not just that they believe that there is 10,000 people who may have voted who are ineligible, it would indicate that there was a systemic failure. That's the type of allegation if it's true, that could lead to close judicial scrutiny.
So, we're waiting to see if there is evidence of that. We have not seen it yet.
The Pennsylvania lawsuit is also worth looking at because they are saying that a judge effectively rewrote the election laws and that some ballots that were late processed are counting. We still don't know how many ballots that would be, but it's already been to the Supreme Court. And then John Roberts sort of kick that can down the road.
Well, the can is rattling back to the court this week.
CARLSON: Interesting. In one sentence, tell me, it is established in every state that bipartisan election observers have a right to watch counts and recounts, correct?
TURLEY: Correct. This is supposed to be a transparent process, because it's not just who wins, it is getting people to agree that someone won.
CARLSON: Exactly. Exactly. Getting people to agree that someone won. That's the essence. Jonathan Turley, thank you.
TURLEY: See you, Tucker.
CARLSON: So as we told you at the outset, the media are not just observers of what is going on, they are participants in this process, critical participants and given that, you might want to see what they've been saying today. We'll show you straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: If you're a race obsessed identity politics monger and virtually everyone on the left is, election night was a crushing disappointment for you.
Donald Trump performed very well, better than Joe Biden did in some cases, among Hispanic voters. He did well among African-American voters, Muslims and Native Americans. In fact, in precincts in Robeson County, North Carolina where Native Americans are a majority of voters, Donald Trump got
69 percent of the vote.
What does this mean exactly? It just happened. We're not sure. But it's a huge change. It's a big deal.
In 2012, Mitt Romney got 39 percent of the vote in that county. But other networks, they are not deterred. Data aren't standing in the way of the
narrative: Donald Trump is a racist.
In fact, about just an hour ago, a pundit claimed that Donald Trump is a racist for raising concerns about voter fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's unbelievable that he can say these cities are known for corruption, et cetera, et cetera. Why are you singling out these two black cities? Why are you denying the victory that these people have fought for? And to have the President of the United States crap all over their efforts? It hurts. And you can say he didn't mean it to be racial, but it feels racial to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: So it's racist to suggest there is a record of corruption in Detroit and Philadelphia. You know, what's racist? It is lying about it.
Ignoring the deteriorating lives of the people who live in those cities.
You ever been to those cities? Imagine living in one of them. But anyone who suggests maybe we should look carefully at how votes are counted there is racist.
People hate that kind of nonsense. It's one of the reasons that Trump did better than expected. He got more votes this time than he did the first time because of people like that, because America is completely sick of identity politics garbage. It's divisive, it's stupid. It leaves wounds that don't heal, why don't you stop it? But they won't.
At another left-wing network, a former blogger who is best known for fending off time traveling hackers couldn't contain her contempt for racists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: But there is a great amount of racism, anti- blackness, anti-wokeness, this idea that political correctness is some sort of scheme to destroy white America, right, but we know what this country is, but still, part of you, I think part of your heart says, you know what, maybe the country is going to pay off all of this pain that the children were stolen with the repudiation and as the night wore on and I realized and it's something okay, that's not happening. We are still who we thought.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: You know, scam artists like that, Harvard educated phoneys who have no freaking idea what they're talking about are so grating and so horrible that they make Donald Trump possible in the first place. Dumbo, why do you think people vote for him? Because of you.
But they're still doing it. Why is that? Steve Krakauer has been watching very carefully. He is the founder of "Fourth Watch" newsletter. He joins us tonight.
Steve, thanks so much for coming. They never stopped with this theme, even when it doesn't work.
STEVE KRAKAUER, FOUNDER, "FOURTH WATCH": No, no. I think we're seeing -- you know, it's because of how much they hate Donald Trump. And they -- you know, and Donald Trump is sort of a singular force of hatred in the media.
And look, he says things and he does things and he is very polarizing. And frankly, you know, I completely agree, every vote should be counted.
Everyone goes in and says things like, you know, declaring victory. You know, I think that's irresponsible, too.
But I will say this, when people don't know any Trump supporters, they then extrapolate that hatred onto supporters of Donald Trump, onto just average voters who happen to vote for Donald Trump for any number of reasons. You know, black people, Hispanic, LGBT, doubled, 28 percent of LGBT Americans voted for Donald Trump. These are not racist and homophobes.
But when you get the media members, you know, who then take their hatred of Donald Trump, put it on average Americans who don't harbor any sort of hatred here, you get this sort of -- the reaction that we see from the supporters who are stunned by it.
And honestly, to push it from Trump to the supporters is so sad, and it is continuing and I hope there is some introspection in the media. I'm not sure there will be.
CARLSON: No, this is the nicest and most welcoming country in the world.
It's really ridiculous. Steve, thank you. A lot going on.
KRAKAUER: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: So what have we learned -- there is so much going on -- in the last two days? And where is it going from here?
We want to bring on someone smart to synthesize it. Mollie Hemingway is that person. She is a Senior Editor at "The Federalist." We're happy to have her. Mollie, what's your assessment as of right now?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It is just so important that people be able to have trust in their election process and there are many reasons why conservatives don't have that trust in the process right now, and what's happening is a lot of elite institutions are trying to sort of bully conservatives into accepting what these elite institutions want.
You have Big Business telling people that they have to accept Joe Biden as President. You have Big Tech censoring any legitimate questions about what they are seeing -- what people are seeing happen in states across the country, where ballots are being found, all in a very similar direction.
And then you have Big Media, which spent the last four years doing everything in their power to destroy Donald Trump, to get him ousted, saying that there are -- that there is no reason why conservatives or Republican voters or Trump supporters should have any problem at all. This is precisely the wrong approach.
These people have destroyed their credibility and they are not in a position to tell people what they should feel or think about what they're seeing. The only way for people to have confidence is through transparency and accountability and that's not what they are seeing in very key states here.
And so it is important, no matter who is elected President that people be able to have confidence and really believe that the vote is fair. We are very far away from that and that will have serious ramifications, no matter who is elected President.
CARLSON: It really feels like they are doing grave damage to our institutions to me -- grave damage.
HEMINGWAY: It's an extremely fraught situation, and I think that it is something that they brought on themselves through the way that they behaved over the last four years, and it is very important that they think through what they are doing now.
CARLSON: That's right. Censorship and bullying degrade the country and make it really difficult to move forward and we are going to do all we can to fight that for the sake of the country because that is what matters.
Mollie Hemingway, thank you so much.
HEMINGWAY: Thank you.
CARLSON: We are out of time tonight. We'll be back 23 hours from now, tomorrow, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. There's a lot going on, but we will be here tomorrow.
Until then, Sean Hannity has been watching very carefully everything that is going on. We're going to give him an extra 10 seconds tonight because that's how much we care.
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